Oral History of Theodore Hill, Jr.
The following interview was conducted in 1972 by Doris Auser and Arthur Lee:
“We are in Mr. Hill’s home and Mrs. Hill is also in attendance. I know Mr. Hill very well that I always that I always called him Ted; we’ve been friends and relatives of the family for some time.
Lee: Who were your father and mother, Ted?
Answer. My father was Theodore Hill and my mother was Susan Curry, married June
20,1892.
Lee: Ted, was your mother of a local family and what was
her father’s name?
A. Yes, my mother was local, Shrub Oak. Her father was Dr. James Hart Curry a
General Practitioner in the community for 48 years.
Lee: Where were you born?
A. In Jefferson Valley in one of the houses on this place.
Auser: Was this still old Route 6 at that time?
A. No
Auser: Then it was just Route 6?
A. Yes
Lee: You had a brother?
A. James Curry Hill who died August 9, 1968.
Lee: What was your early schooling? Did you go to
Jefferson Valley to school?
A. Went to Jefferson Valley one room school, then to Shrub Oak, which was a two
room school and then high school education Peekskill, NY, now consolidated
Oakside High School.
Auser: Where was the school in Jefferson Valley and in
Shrub Oak?
A. At the end of a section of Gomer St. and Route 6.
Auser: That was the one room school and where was the
other school?
A. In Shrub Oak adjoining the Shrub Oak Methodist Church, now the residence of
Howard Olsen.
Lee: How did you get to school?
A. Well, walk to the local schools, and going to Peekskill in the good weather
we rode a bicycle to Mohegan and took the trolley into Peekskill. In cold
weather and rough weather we drove a horse and put it in the livery stable, then
took the trolley to the High School.
Lee: How did you get to the Shrub Oak School. Did you walk
there?
A. Walked.
Lee: How far was it?
A. Mile and a half exactly.
Lee: Some difference from our schools of now-a-days. Did
you finish the school at Oakside; finish the High School?
A. Graduated in 1914.
Lee: Yes, and from there you went on further, didn’t
you?
A. Two years later. My brother was in Cornell and my father could only have one
in school at the time. I went to Massachusetts Agees in 1916. It is now the
University of Massachusetts. I did not finish. I left school to enter the United
States Army. After the war I came back to the farm.
Lee: How long were you in the service?
A. About three months.
Lee: And from then on you probably worked on the farm?
A. That’s right.
Lee: And you had how large a farm?
A. Well, we had 188 acres and we were fruit and dairy.
Lee: You had farm help?
A. Oh yes, several.
Lee: Besides you and your father?
A. All of us worked on the farm.
Lee: How about farm animals; how many of them?
A. Well, we milked anywhere from 30 to 50 throughout the year.
Lee: And you didn’t have a milking machine?
A. Not until 1940.
Lee: What farm crops did you put in?
A. Apples, peaches, plus the regular forage crops that you need to run a dairy
farm.
Auser: What did you do with the apples, peaches and milk?
Were they sent to the city?
A. At that time in 1920’s the fruit was bought by the Cold Storage operators
in School St., Yonkers, which was a trading center for the Hucksters from NY
City. The milk went to different dairies; sometimes to the Culinary in
Peekskill, sometimes to the Natural Milk Center and later to the Borden Co.
going to NY City.
Lee: You never shipped milk in Yorktown Heights?
A. Never.
Lee: When did you enter politics, or were you always
interested as a young man?
A. Well, I might have been. I was interested all the time. I was District Leader
back in maybe 1925. In 1927 was the first time that I ran for office. I ran for
Supervisor and made it.
Lee: Who was your opponent?
A. My opponent was a very fine man by the name of James N. Strang who had been
Supervisor of this town for fourteen years. I beat him by 140 votes.
Lee: How long were you in as Supervisor?
A. Ten years, from 1928 to 1938.
Lee: You were succeeded by John Downing?
A. John H. Downing, yes.
Lee: Actually, you retired so to speak as Supervisor. Then
how soon did you go into the Assembly?
A. One and the same time. As I left the Supervisor’s position, I swore in the
NY State Assembly. From 1938 to 1960 I was in the NY State Assembly, 22 years.
Lee: That was a long time. I understand you still go back
there on occasions. Do you belong to some club?
A. Yes. I belong to what we call the 10 year club. Officially known as the Pilot
Association. Anyone who has served consecutive 10 years in the assembly is
eligible to belong. It goes back to this year the 6th of March. 90 of them were
present.
Lee: From the State Assembly Ted, what was your next
venture?
A. Governor Rockefeller appointed me to the NY State Power Authority which was a
State Agency that was created to harness the waters of the Great Lakes in two
places; namely, at the Messena on the St. Lawrence River and Niagara Falls of
the Niagara River for hydropower.
Lee: Who was the President of the Power Commission?
A. Robert Moses.
Lee: And who later?
A. James A. Fitzpatrick.
Lee: And wasn’t Lawrence Rockefeller connected with it
at one time?
A. Lawrence Rockefeller was the Chairman of the State Council of Power which has
an interlocked association where hydropower is generated. Also the power
projects are used for recreation, as it is so well exemplified at Messena where
St. Lawrence River is backed up. Dammed and backed up for 26 miles. Mr. Moses
was rightly concerned about recreation.
Lee: Yes, and concerned with many organizations along
those lines.
A. That’s right.
Lee: I know you married Laura Race, but I don’t know the
date?
Auser: Mrs. Hill what was the date you were married please?
A. March 30, 1932.
Lee: And you have a daughter?
A. Laura Susan.
Lee: Where do they live?
A. New Rochelle.
Lee: Do they have a family?
A. Three girls.
Lee: Now perhaps we might go back and retrace some of your early days?
Auser: Before you go back too far, may I just ask where
you were married? Were you married in Jefferson Valley here?
A. We were married in Buffalo, NY.
Lee: And then you built your home here about that time?
A. That’s right.
Lee: Which was just a short distance from the farm house?
A. That’s right.
Lee: Some time you became a Real Estate Agent?
A. Not really. I’ve had a Real Estate Brokers License for many years, but I
have never become an active broker because I had a broker I used occasionally
for appraisals, but I have never been a real broker.
Lee: You never had time for that because you were so
involved in a political life of this community and of the state, and also you
had farm work to do. You and your brother carried on the farm work after your
father passed away and there’s been little or no time to engage in many
outside activities.
A. That’s correct.
Auser: Back when you were a young boy, I would like to
know something about what it was like going to a one room school; if there was
difficulty or more the fun having all the classes in one room. What the teacher
was like, just what school was like to you as a little boy?
A. Well, as a youngster going to the Jefferson Valley School the student body
was about forty-five with one teacher. She was very able and a strict
disciplinarian which indicates that you can have a large class if you have
discipline.
Auser: And how many grades did she have?
A. Seven.
Auser: And she had no trouble keeping them separate in
their work?
A. She was on top of the situation every minute.
Lee: What was her name?
A. Alice Margison, she came from Sullivan County.
Lee: I think she may have been one of my teachers in the
District #4 in Yorktown.
A. That I do not know.
Auser: What kind of subjects did you have in school? What
subjects do you remember best?
A. Well, everything that you would have from one to the seventh grade.
Auser: Well not in our days.
A. No, it is completely different now but it was reading, writing and
arithmetic.
Auser: History and Geography?
A. Correct.
Auser: The regular basic learning thing.
A. That’s right.
Auser: Did you have a lot of memory work to do too?
A. Yes.
Auser: Did they have school programs that they put on?
A. I would say, not as I remember.
Auser: Did they make any preparation for holidays like
Easter, Christmas, Halloween, days like that?
A. Only Arbor Day.
Auser: When is Arbor Day?
A. Early in May.
Auser: And the whole school, you went out on that day and
planted these bushes?
A. We were taken into the woods and picked up these raw bushes or something of
that nature and planted them.
Auser: Around the school house?
A. Yes.
Auser: What about Christmas celebrations at home?
A. Christmas was a very fine time of the year; everybody was very conscious of
Christmas.
Auser: Did you hang stockings by the chimney and have
Christmas trees?
A. Of course.
Auser: Was that just decorated on Christmas Eve so you
didn’t see it till Christmas morning or did you all help with it?
A. No, the Christmas tree was set up before Christmas and it was generally cut
in the woods somewhere, a cedar or hemlock or something. They were not bought.
Auser: And you had a program at church I imagine?
A. Very much so.
Auser: Do you remember any particular Christmas?
A. No I do not, no outstanding one.
Auser: What kind of presents would you get - skates,
sleigh, things like that?
A. Steel traps.
Auser: For catching small animals?
A. Yes, that’s right. My mother was very conscious of Christmas and went all
out.
Lee: What about Christmas dinner?
A. We would either go to Shrub Oak to the Martens Family or prior to that they
would come here. It was a family reunion.
Lee: What was the relationship?
A. Well, my mother and Mrs. Martens were sisters and another sister who never
married lived with the Martens family. Christmas really was a festive occasion.
Auser: Now when you all went together to Shrub Oak, did
you go in horse and sleigh?
A. You bet we did - if it was a sleigh we drove a sleigh, if it was a wagon we
drove a wagon. It was before the days of automobiles.
Auser: When you were in your teens did they have parties?
A. Oh yes.
Auser: What kind of parties did they have?
A. Well, Social Club. I remember many years ago it was called the Osceola Social
Club and they ran a series of dances at the Oddfellows Hall.
Lee: Where’s the Oddfellows Hall?
A. In Shrub Oak opposite the Martens homestead and it was a very pleasant
affair; we all learned to dance there from 9 o’clock to 4 in the morning.
Auser: Wow, that’s a long time.
A. All night.
Lee: It also served as the 1st Election District of the
Town of Yorktown.
A. That’s right.
Lee: When did the polls open?
A. 6 in the morning till 6 at night then; now it’s 6 in the morning till I
think 9 o’clock.
Lee: I have in mind that years ago not too many years ago
but, and you may recall, I don’t know if you attended there, there was a
chapel in Jefferson Valley and the chapel as I recall is still there, is it not?
A. Yes.
Auser: Where is that?
A. Right opposite the Macrin (?) home, just west of where old Route 6 and 6N
split. Just a few hundred feet, and it was operated by, or created by, a Sunbeam
Society which was a group headed by the Natt Family who came from a long line of
Methodist Ministers. They had a very good and fine Sunday School there for many
years. But it faded out and automobiles came in and it drifted.
Lee: I think sometimes our Presbyterian minister in
Yorktown, the Presbyterian Church there, would come over here and have charge of
those services.
A. That’s right.
Lee: In the afternoon, Sunday afternoon?
A. That’s right, Sunday afternoon was the time when they held their services
because it would not interfere with the churches, one in Shrub Oak and two in
Mahopac Falls. They drew from every Protestant denomination.
Auser: Let’s go back a little bit - you said you went
from the Jefferson Valley School to the Shrub Oak School. What grades were
there?
A. Well, up to 7th - there was no 8th grade in this community.
Auser: Oh, then both schools were the same grade?
A. Yes.
Auser: You transferred part way?
A. The services were a little better - 2 teachers were better than one.
Auser: But even in that school then, each teacher had more
than one grade?
A. Oh yes.
Auser: Was the discipline as strong there?
A. Oh yes, the discipline was not severe but strict; they were in complete
command all the time, the teachers were.
Lee: Who were the teachers at Shrub Oak when you went
there?
A. Miss Jesse Travis at the lower grades and Laddie L. Ball had the upper
grades. He later went to work for the New York Custom House.
Auser: Did they have a big bell that they rang for recess?
We have one at the Museum.
A. Yes, that was quite a bell too. I don’t want to count it. That would be
very interesting to know. I’ll make an inquiry about that.
Auser: What about a Fire Department in Jefferson Valley?
When did they start or don’t they have one now?
A. They do, but they’re all under the Mohegan Fire Company.
Auser: What did you use to do if there was a fire when you
were a little boy?
A. When I was a boy, fire was a tragedy second only to death. Everybody burned
down when we got a fire, particularly the big dairy barns in the country were
burned down right to the ground.
Auser: Would everybody come from around?
A. Oh yes, we didn’t have the equipment. We didn’t have the water, see.
Auser: Did you form those bucket brigades?
A. Oh yes, seldom they got them out. I mean, I know of many big dairy farms. One
James N. Strang place burned. You would see the cows laying in line in the
morning when they burned down. Peter Curry’s place; I just remember there they
were right in line 45 or 50 head.
Auser: What would cause those fires - lightening?
A. No, no winter time probably; match, I mean cigarette.
Auser: Just something…
A. Carelessness.
Lee: Men sleeping in the barn; hired help.
A. Happened all the time.
Auser: Mr. Hill, would you tell us something about the
oxen that you had on the farm; how they worked and how long you had them?
A. Well, this place was a mile long and we needed three teams. So we had two
teams of horses and a team of oxen. All of my life up until 1920, then the oxen
was replaced by the first Sportston (?) tractor.
Auser: What kind of oxen were they?
A. We had all kinds; we had Holstein oxen, we had Devon oxen. The last pair we
had were Ayshires. Bought them in Woodbury, Connecticut. The last pair, I bought
them personally; before that my father always purchased them. The man who bought
the oxen raised them.
Auser: What was the purpose of having two teams of horses
and one of oxen? What could the oxen do that the horses couldn’t do?
A. Oxen could do many things the horses couldn’t do, particularly work rough
land, and the farmhands would rather plow with oxen then they would horses. For
the simple reason that the double tree was not there, and the oxen with one
chain were well broken; it was a pleasure then working with the plow.
Auser: You walked along beside the oxen?
A. You didn’t have to walk beside them; they would follow perfectly.
Auser: With a team of horses, you would sit?
A. You would drive them the same way. You would have to guide them some.
Auser: Are the oxen gentle usually?
A. Very gentle, very nice.
Auser: They have those little tips; brass things.
A. The brass things, yes. It’s a pleasure to work them in. They’re well
broken and you’re not too free with the whip. They do not like to be whipped.
Auser: I guess nobody likes to be whipped.
A. No, I’ve seen oxen spoiled by someone being too free with that whip.
Auser: The last team you had…did they die or were they
sold?
A. No, I sold them, then went and bought the tractors.
Auser: Did you have names for them/
A. Oh yes, always be names for them. There was always one named Tom, I guess.
Tom and Jerry were the prevailing names.
Auser: Didn’t you use them for hauling stone to make the
stone fences?
A. In the early days when these stone walls were built, oxen were used. They
didn’t haul these stones. They moved these big rocks that you see here in the
base of old stone walls. They were moved in by the oxen.
Auser: The horses couldn’t pull?
A. It wasn’t a question of pull. You had to deal with all the time that double
tree, see. The men would have to pick that up. The oxen only had one chain, come
right back between the pair.
Auser: You couldn’t do that with horses?
A. No, you couldn’t do that. All these walls that you see throughout Yorktown,
northern Yorktown were built a hundred years ago, were built with oxen.
Lee: Using a stone boat?
A. That’s right. I’ve seen one team take a big stone and they actually hook
to one corner and edge it around, hook to another corner and edge it around; see
inch it up.
Auser: It took quite a while to do it.
A. Oh, time was nothing.
Auser: It wasn’t something you went out for half an hour
to do.
A. 10 hours a day.
Lee: I think you probably could control the oxen better
because they were more gentle. Horses rather tend to be nervous; they want to
either pull or else they don’t want to pull. It’s hard to get them to hold
steadily on heavy loads.
A. Oh yes, the oxen is an animal for moving stone and in logging, too. I
remember a pair that was on this job; once you hooked them to a log, all you did
was step back, you let them go. They would swing half way, swing to the left;
they’d swing to the right till the log moved and then they’d take it right
out. You’d want to get out of the way or they’d roll the log over you.
Lee: I’ve heard it said, Ted, that you and your boy and
your brother and some of your cousins had a camp up on Barger Street?
A. And we still own the land, yes, 20 acres up there.
Lee: Of wood land?
A. Yes, rough land.
Lee: What was the name of your camp?
A. We called it Camp Underwood.
Lee: Isn’t that true that most farms even down in
Yorktown Heights area, years ago…we’ll say about 1900 or before…had a wood
lot in Jefferson Valley to furnish those particular places if they did not have
a wood lot on their own property? They also had either owned or leased land, we’ll
say in Jefferson Valley, in order that they might have a wood reserve to go for
burning in their home?
A. Many, many places had wood lots that didn’t adjoin their farms. I remember
when my father bought that 20 acres for $600.
Auser: When you had the teams of horses, were these the
very large horses?
A. Yes, not too large. They weighed about 1200 to 1400 lbs.
Auser: They weren’t like Clyesdales?
A. The Clyesdale and Percheron were too heavy for farm work, particularly this
type of farm. Then there always was a driving horse.
Auser: That you would use when you went out?
A. Oh, yes. That would be 1000 to 1050 lbs. Horses.
Auser: Any particular breed of horse?
A. Well, the road horses were always a trotting breed, because in my early days
everybody had a good road horse which was standard breed. They would feel like
they would like to race it, but were not quite good enough for that. But the
work horses would come in from Nebraska, Iowa; dealers brought them in carload
after carload in the spring of the year. Then you bought a pair, if you had the
money.
Auser: How did you get your ice?
A. When you ran a dairy farm, you had to cool your milk. Up until 1935, you had
to harvest ice. It was harvested from what we called the Valley Pond; the
official name is Lake Osceola. That was hard work. Teams, trucks.
Auser: You took the horses for that?
A. Plowed the ice with a single horse, then loaded it.
Auser: Did you cut it out with a big saw?
A. Yes, that’s right. Plowed out, marked out, then sawed out and then barred
off.
Auser: And then you brought it back to the farm?
A. Yes, brought it back and stored it.
Auser: I’ve always been interested in something else.
These old deeds of farms; they always say “and so many out buildings”. Now,
to a city girl, an out building is a barn…period. What other type of building
do they have on a normal farm?
A. Oh, chicken houses, sheds, pig pen, wagon house, other than the barn that
stored the animals.
Auser: So you would have one for animals, one for
chickens, one for wagons?
Lee: Corn crib?
A. Oh, yes, corn crib. (Mrs. Hill - smoke house) Hog house, too. That was the
main part of the farm, was the pigs. The processing of the hams, bacon and the
fresh pork was part of your livelihood.
Lee: When talking to the young people down at the Museum,
I tell them that the farmers had to be independent. They had to have pigs for
eating in the winter time, had to have chickens to furnish eggs and chickens for
dinner once in awhile. Raised the crops which were used right on the farm, corn
and all those things. A farmer years ago had to be as independent as he could.
Couldn’t rely on supermarkets.
A. He had to be self-sustaining.
Lee: Yes, that’s the word.